Nothing NEEDS to be inflammatory. If they are factual they should be able to stand on their own.
And as far as 25+'s list. I see several areas where it differs from "God's list" I don't think the Bible talks about church credit cards. I will not longer respond to any posts about this list though. All I will say is that I would not go to any church where 25+ was in charge.
1:42 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Tim said: I have not found electricity mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
Another thought that I would like to present, you stated that you would not go to any church where 25+ was in charge. Could I ask why? What would bring you to that conclusion?
I believe that God has already given us an outline of what the church should be.
And my views on 25+ and whether or not I would go to his church are my own. I am not saying he is a bad person or it would be a bad church. Simply that what he is describing is not the type of place I would want to go.
2:07 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Thank you David. I really do appreciate that!
1. I am not going to compare us to Jesus. We are supposed to me more like him, but his judgment was perfect and ours is not. So I think we need to be careful that our "righteous" anger is not intertwined with our "human" anger.
2. My problem with the list is this- this is a list about SG and the administration. There is nothing positive on the list and it assumes the worst. There is not one reason we can't have church credit cards unless you are assuming people will misuse them. I have used one before. I used it responsibly. I wasn't in a position to be reimbursed.
I agree there are changes that need to be made in our church. But they needed to be changed long before now. I will be happy to work on a list of changes, but not this one.
And I hope you know that I did not mean that I didn't think God would be in charge of the church. That seems to be putting words in my mouth. Some human person has to be in "charge" of the church operations.
2:18 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
I have never said there are not problems. But when we start a list that is about that and not a catalouge of things SG has been accused of I will be happy to participate.
for example. I think one area that has always been a problem is the limited access to the pastors office for common members. I can understand how this started, Dr. Rogers would have done nothing but see people if they just let anyone in to talk to him whenever they wanted. But I think there should always have been a clear-cut method for someone to talk to the pastor in a reasonable amount of time. I am not saying it should be a free for all, but there should be a procedure for it.
2:29 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Here are the things I would be willing to address on a new list.
Conflict of interest statements.
Review of the bylaws. Other things fall under this like the business meeting thing.
I don't know that I want them to be like GBCs - I want them to be what is right for BBC.
But really and truly. I don't want to talk about this list. If you or someone wants to start a new list of realistic changes that need to be in place regardless of who our pastor is I will be happy to help. I don't feel that I am qualified to do it.
2:45 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
#3 can go. It falls under the others. As far as #1 I think it should be renamed "Pastoral Responsibilities". then you could break it down into accountability and general operations.
2:56 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
tim- I would suggest if you are truly interested in working on a list- why do we start another blog specifically for that. I don't think this is something we can sit here and do in a day amidst all the other arguments. We should take it one item at a time and pray and back each thing with scripture.
3:01 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Tim- I still stand by my feeling we need to discuss it somewhere else. there is too much to weed through here. It is too hard to stay focused. I don't have time to do any more today.
1 comment:
Bepatient said...
socwork-
Nothing NEEDS to be inflammatory. If they are factual they should be able to stand on their own.
And as far as 25+'s list. I see several areas where it differs from "God's list" I don't think the Bible talks about church credit cards.
I will not longer respond to any posts about this list though. All I will say is that I would not go to any church where 25+ was in charge.
1:42 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Tim said:
I have not found electricity mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
Another thought that I would like to present, you stated that you would not go to any church where 25+ was in charge. Could I ask why?
What would bring you to that conclusion?
I believe that God has already given us an outline of what the church should be.
And my views on 25+ and whether or not I would go to his church are my own. I am not saying he is a bad person or it would be a bad church. Simply that what he is describing is not the type of place I would want to go.
2:07 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Thank you David. I really do appreciate that!
1. I am not going to compare us to Jesus. We are supposed to me more like him, but his judgment was perfect and ours is not. So I think we need to be careful that our "righteous" anger is not intertwined with our "human" anger.
2. My problem with the list is this- this is a list about SG and the administration. There is nothing positive on the list and it assumes the worst. There is not one reason we can't have church credit cards unless you are assuming people will misuse them. I have used one before. I used it responsibly. I wasn't in a position to be reimbursed.
I agree there are changes that need to be made in our church. But they needed to be changed long before now. I will be happy to work on a list of changes, but not this one.
And I hope you know that I did not mean that I didn't think God would be in charge of the church. That seems to be putting words in my mouth. Some human person has to be in "charge" of the church operations.
2:18 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
I have never said there are not problems. But when we start a list that is about that and not a catalouge of things SG has been accused of I will be happy to participate.
for example.
I think one area that has always been a problem is the limited access to the pastors office for common members. I can understand how this started, Dr. Rogers would have done nothing but see people if they just let anyone in to talk to him whenever they wanted. But I think there should always have been a clear-cut method for someone to talk to the pastor in a reasonable amount of time. I am not saying it should be a free for all, but there should be a procedure for it.
2:29 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Here are the things I would be willing to address on a new list.
Conflict of interest statements.
Review of the bylaws. Other things fall under this like the business meeting thing.
I don't know that I want them to be like GBCs - I want them to be what is right for BBC.
But really and truly. I don't want to talk about this list. If you or someone wants to start a new list of realistic changes that need to be in place regardless of who our pastor is I will be happy to help. I don't feel that I am qualified to do it.
2:45 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
#3 can go. It falls under the others.
As far as #1 I think it should be renamed "Pastoral Responsibilities". then you could break it down into accountability and general operations.
2:56 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
tim- I would suggest if you are truly interested in working on a list- why do we start another blog specifically for that. I don't think this is something we can sit here and do in a day amidst all the other arguments. We should take it one item at a time and pray and back each thing with scripture.
3:01 PM, January 12, 2007
Bepatient said...
Tim- I still stand by my feeling we need to discuss it somewhere else. there is too much to weed through here. It is too hard to stay focused. I don't have time to do any more today.
3:24 PM, January 12, 2007
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